How did Outside the Box get started?
I worked on one of the first campus information networks in the 1980s, at UCSD, before the Web took off. I met my partner, Sean Simpson, through a project to let students order books through the Internet. I took on a few corporate clients, moonlighting. I did some marketing and some Web development. I helped San Diego State University put their catalog online. They were one of the first to do that.

Your Web site emphasizes marketing more than design. Why is that?
I can get any number of college kids who can design the front end of a Web page. We (also) run a San Diego-area music site. A lot of interns want to work with music sites. So we do design, but that's not our real expertise. You can have a great Web site, but if you can't get people to come to it, or you can't get the right people to come to it, it doesn't matter how well designed it is. The only thing worse than no Web site is no Web site visitors. It turns out that everybody needs help marketing. It's like the saying about real estate (and location). On the Web, it's marketing, marketing, marketing. The question is, are you hitting your target audience? It's not whether you're getting thousands of hits; it's whether you're getting hundreds of sales.

Which Web sites do you like?
I really like Google. It's a very, very clean site. They don't put a lot of crud in your way. The ads they show you are relevant to your search. If you searched for a boat, they show you boat ads. Another site I like is Merriam-Webster's site (http://m-w.com) I use a dictionary a lot. I spell-check all my e-mail. I use e-mail a lot for business, and I think it's important to spell everything correctly and to use proper punctuation. I've always kept a dictionary on my desk. And now I have the Merriam-Webster site bookmarked. It's another site that's very clean. I like sites that are pure information.

You mentioned that you don't use emoticons in e-mail. What do you have against smiley faces?
People are too cute in e-mail. Or they'll say something mean and then put a smiley face on it. It's still mean. I might say "damn" in conversation, but I'll never put it in e-mail. These things can come back to haunt you. I've saved every e-mail I've ever written.

What cool technology do you play with?
I've got a Handspring personal digital assistant. Everybody in our company has a Handspring. I've got a (full-size) keyboard for it. I'm going to get a Ricochet modem and work from the beach.

- JONATHAN SIDENER